Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Supreme Court of Canada to Child Support Payors: Income Increases Must be Disclosed

The Supreme Court of Canada decided yesterday in D.B.S and S.R.G. et al that child support payors who do not make timely disclosure of income increases are liable to pay increased child support retroactively under the Child Support Guidelines, once the income increases come to light.

CTV News Reports on yesterday's Supreme Court of Canada ruling:

Canada's Supreme Court has ruled ex-spouses could face hefty retroactive child support payments if they fail to declare increased earnings -- a decision that could affect thousands of divorced and separated couples across the country.

The ruling was unanimous: 7-0. The top court decided that ex-spouses -- the fathers in most cases -- who pay support have an obligation to report increases in income which could therefore boost their court-ordered payments.

"Parents have an obligation to support their children in a way that is commensurate with their income," said Justice Michel Bastarache, writing the main opinion.

"A payor parent who does not increase his-her child support payments to correspond with his-her income will not have fulfilled his-her obligation to his-her children."

The court also ruled that former spouses should be hit with retroactive penalties if they fail to inform their ex-partner about any changes to their income. The rough guideline is that penalties should not stretch back more than three years, said Bastarache.

The court left the door open for lower courts to decide on those payments on a case-by-case basis.

I'm posting this from vacation in Newfoundland, so I'll have to leave extended commentary on the Supreme Court's decision in DBS and SRG to a later date.

In short, however, this decision is not even slightly surprising. I frankly am surprised it has made national headlines.

The Guidelines are quite clear. Support is based on a payor's actual income - not on what the recipient may believe the payor's income to be.

Did anyone really expect the Court to reward payors who intentionally withhold relevant information that their incomes have increased?

- Garry J. Wise, near Gros Morne National Park, Newfoundland
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Anonymous said...

All I can say is..."its about time", I have dealt with any and EVERY form of my daughters father trying to deak out of contributing/being a parent (financial end of things) for the past 8 yrs, by means of fleeing and moving away boasting his chronic illness has prevnted him from staying with his very good paying job, he has boasted he can not work shift work or night shift therefore he had to quit, to find out later he was not only doing shift work but also working out of town at an under the table construction/trailer moving company, when the courts appealed their last decision he was off again and too sick to work, then after some thought he did a few insurance scams saying his car was stolen and collecting, both times he collected, ICBC was too late interviening and with the garnishing before the money was sent.He has now opened a business under his partners name, where he is making HUGE dollars, Im talking 100 and some PER/HR, and Im left to know there is nothing that can be done. My kids loose out and quite frankly the stress of going back and fourth to court is a lot, and somehow deep inside he doesnt see that what he is doing is wrong. He has another child and has no problem supporting him, yet when it comes to being honest and disclosing his actual will just never ever happen.There needs to be a way that "if" the payor begins to put businesses into others names , flee, or work unlegitamatley there are STRONG STRONG penalties...this in turn would defer payors from lying and doing this.

Anonymous said...

This is all fine for the Dead bead Dads but what about the dads that work really hard to provide and have always paid support regardless. Why is there no resposabliity in place for the person recieving the support. I can't afford to go on trips and vacations like she does and yet my daughters show up in need of new school clothes and underwear. The basic needs that she is suppose to be providing for them with the money that I send her. I'm so tired of all the divorced men who get taken advantage of because they want to be close to their kids. Some of these mothers should be forced to get a job and contribte.

Anonymous said...

I am disgusted by this. The court says it's "for the children"...but what about MY children? What about the children of the second family? It's ok to make them impoverished? Is THAT ok? It's ok to financially ruin the second family in favour of the first born? This is so ridiculous it's not even funny. RETRO? You know what I say to all those women out there? Screw you. The court should take each and every one of these on a case-by-case basis. My husbands ex cheated on him, divorced HIM, forced him to get a DNA test to make sure the brat was his and now she's bending him over again. but this time, it's our kids who are suffering. She's now married to the dirt bag she cheated with and they make more $$ than WE do. This whole system is archaic and makes me ashamed to be a Canadian. Child support is one thing, I agree, you should pay to support your child...but we're getting raped over here for sports, retro, and paying for things for this kid that we can't afford for our other children.

Anonymous said...

and another thing....child support should be based on what it actually costs to raise a child, not on the income of the payor. Why should they have to report every increase they get? To have it yanked away by some greedy pig? Honestly....politicians should yank their heads out of their behinds. Or better yet, get a divorce and see what taking it in the read REALLY feels like.

Anonymous said...

'scuse me, that should say "rear" what taking it in the reaR really feels like. You know, up the ying-yang....

Anonymous said...

What I hate are is fact that second families have to live in poverty in many cases to support the first family. Has it ever occurred to the "Law Makers" of this country that people have LIMITED incomes?! My Husbands ex has been going to "school" for 5 years now. She uses the 800/month child support we give her and the other $620/month the gov't gives her (for her kids cause she is low income) for school, nothing goes to the kids (who are now both teenageers). Becasue she has no income we also pay 100% of the other expenses which add up to over 700/month. Our 2 other children get NOTHING. Worst of all, we are in DEBT every month. But whatever she needs, she gets. I don't understand why the system thinks a mans income is unlimited. My children are under 2years old, but I have to go back to work to support his ex. who hasn't worked full-time since they seperated 8 years ago and has been screwing around with "upgrading" herself while she already had marketable skills. It is BS and my children suffer and the courts in this country DON"T CARE.

Anonymous said...

I never really new that being married and having children with a prior child in the picture basically left your other children WITHOUT ANY RIGHTS WHATSOEVER. My wife and I were stunned to learn that they have no voice or protection under cdn/ON Family Law. So...lemme see here, gee whiz, a marriage certificate is worth... ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. So much for the intent of lawmakers to keep families together. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!. Whatever happened to equality, especially when it comes to the children. Our family court Judge flatly stated that the first born comes first, regardless. Well there you have it, children of second families get screwed.

Anonymous said...

Does it make a difference if my son's dad has another child with another women.. For the calculations of child support ?

Child Support Newfoundland / Labrador said...

Wow, I have read some of your comments, I am a divorced mother of one. I was left on the street with my son in tow. My ex husband making $135000 American per year and we only have one child. No extended families. I have raised my son on my own, struggled to get back into the workforce and raised my child on my own while getting $500 a month from his father based on 1999 guidelines. I worked myself up in my job and am now doing okay for myself. But because I have worked hard and stayed off welfare and raised my son in a home just a little above poverty, the courts in Newfoundland are basically saying "oh well, you are paying for him, and you seem to be doing ok, so why go back and get retro." Why???? Because he is the sperm donor and he has a right to pay for his child. Just because I worked hard and live with a fairly decent income, my child is being screwed out of what is fairly owed to him. I have done everything as most of the "MOTHERS" out there well know, for my son, missed time from work, took A/L when my son was sick, given up life outside of motherhood, all the while my ex husband does not have a clue what it costs to pay a sitter, or feed a child or clothe a child. As far as I can see in Newfoundland, and I have talked to many many single mothers and many many lawyers over the years, the justice system in Newfoundland protects the dead beat fathers and their "Second Families". My son is now 18 and is off to Univeristy in the fall, and my dealings with my ex is almost over. Who do I thank for that, certainly not the courts in Newfoundland, certainly not his father, his father is to busy spending his fortune on fancy sports cars, I am proud I have raised him to be the person he is. Unfortunately, I have a long standing beef with the justice system in Newfoundland and in Canada, I have fought for 10 years and I still have not gotten any satisfaction from the courts or from his father.

So for you Second Families out there, don't make assumptions, you married this man and had more kids with him, while he is being dishonest with his child from the first marriage, not the mother, trust me, you could be the next person on this site with the same problem, remember there is a 70% chance that second marriages end in divorce. We are fighting for what should have been paid and if he paid it when he was supposed to, he wouldn't have this big debt now that he has a second family.

As for my case, NO the court would not give me retroactive support in the amounts of $20,000+, and I am at the moment helping my son with University on my own. Where is the Justice?????

Anonymous said...

to R

YOU and ME are exactly the reason the court system should take each of these on a case by case basis. You're case is the reason the laws in Ontario (at least) were changed in the first place. My point is that the law ignores the 2nd family in MY case. It's not my kids fault the laws were changed. Do you think we spend (tax free) $1,500 a month on our 2 children (each, so that would be $3,000)? NO. Do you think it costs $3,000 a month to raise a child? Because if you do the math, the payor puts up his HALF and the recipient is supposed to put up her HALF. Does my step daughter NEED that kind of cash? And then to add insult to injury, my husband's ex-spouse doesn't even have to save for her post-secondary education from the monthly payments! She can pick our pockets again and again and again. THAT'S what's unfair. You got a crappy deal, and I feel bad for you. You should be proud of what you've accomplished with your mother did it too, but she didn't have a pocket to pick, my father DIED. Not every man out there is a deadbeat. The way the support is calculated needs to be changed. Is it fair that it is on my husbands GROSS income when the support is paid out of his NET? NO. There has to be an equalizer in that equation, something that takes into consideration ALL of the circumstances. I don't feel sorry for my step daughter in the slightest, and now her mother, a cheating whore gets to enjoy the money that my husband and I worked so hard to achieve because there is no way in hell that that girl NEEDS that much money. How do you think that makes me feel? How do I explain that to my children, when they see their stepsister benefitting over them? We tell our kids "no" when we can't afford something, and yet the law tells us we can't tell The First Born "no". It's all ridiculous bullshit as far as I'm concerned. And your comment about retro; your husband is SINGLE. He can AFFORD to pay you retro and you should go after it! As far as giving up a life outside motherhood...sister, we've all had to do that the minute the cord was cut, divorced or not. Again, these things should be taken on a case by case basis. Period. Move to Ontario! You'll win the Child Support Lottery here!

Child Support Newfoundland / Labrador said...

In response to your comment about my letter... first of all, the child support is for the child and you like my ex husband and his wife and many other second marriages out there for some reason think in goes in the mother's pocket. It is not for the mother it is for the child. I cannot go on vacation without getting a nasty email from my ex acusing me of spending his money. I have my own money...I work for it just like every one else.

Secondly, I stayed home and took care of my son while my ex husband got his career going, and once he was on the road to money and a good job, I was history, with no work experience and very little education to go to work. Unfortunately, for me, I had to rely on legal aid (which in NL you might as well talk to the dead, to lazy to move out of their way). Legal aid told me there was no such thing as spousal support... being young and naive I believed him only to find out later it was wrong. I supported my exhusband working dead end jobs while he became an Engineer and then he leaves me on the street, I agree he should have paid me spousal support until I got on my feet. I think that is only fair...but I did not get that...I had to do it on my own...

Let me tell you something there are two sides to every divorce and then there is the truth, this I have learned as I have matured, so you should not be bashing his ex-wife just because you have one side of the story, and I agree there are the odd parent out there that are like you said, but we all are not, but to my ex's new wife I am the bitch from hell, yet when they see my son and what a wonderful man he has turned out to be, there is only one person responsible for that..."ME" exhusband. So when you get on a blog like this instead of bashing people you should be trying to come up with ways to fix the justice system to help all involved, not bash the person who is raising a child without his/her father/mother.

Anonymous said...

To R:

You obviously didn't read my comment. Because if you did, you would realize that in your case, I am on YOUR side. And, if you think for one minute that some of the exorbitant child support that we will have to pay DOES NOT benefit the mother, you need your head examined. No child, unless their last name is Hilton, could possible NEED $1,500 a month. If you pay for your own vacations, great! My stepdaughter has enjoyed 2, not 1, but TWO trips to Disneyland, and a trip to Europe, not counting extensive travel in the US. We've never been able to take our kids to Disneyland. My husband is not a deadbeat father. It is the law that is giving his ex-wife free-reign over OUR wallet. Yes, I said OUR wallet. I worked hard too to make the life that we have, and you know what? I will soon have to take a SECOND job to make up the difference that he is paying to her! Is that fair? I think not. And I will also have to put my kids in additional daycare because of it. All the while she gets to sit and enjoy the extra $$. Angry? You bet I am. He was married to this cow for 6 months, she cheated on him, divorced him and now wants the fruit of OUR labour. I was the one who was with him as he earned his degree and became successful. Not her. Me.
Your ex husband sounds like a douchebag. You have the law on your side. Use it!
The point I am trying to make is that not all divorced women are left penniless to live in squalor while the husband skips off to a new life. My husband was only 20 years old when the shit hit the fan, and it was she who left him. Why should he not be able to move on and have a second family? She did! And is doing quite well too. Her current husband is well-off; he takes excellent care of my step daughter. THEY don't need the $$. Yet our children are going to suffer 10 fold because of this.

So I am sorry you feel I've bashed you personally. I don't know you, and I certainly don't think you are the bitch from hell. I wish the laws would change too. For both of us.

Anonymous said...

Maybe before bashing your husbands ex wife for receiving payments for her child as per the law, you should have thought of that before having more children with this man who seems to have a problem with supporting his first child, secondly his 1st child should have the lifestyle she had before his or her parents split up because it was not her fault at all in any of this, so why should she suffer because you decided to hook up with a man and bear more of his children, you should have thought of that before marrying him or having more children if you are complaining about the amount he is paying. Like I said it is not the CHILDS fault for the breakup and why should her lifestyle be any different now just because her father decided to spawn more children out in the world. I guess you are the stupid one in all of this for having more children that you cannot afford, why someone would have more children when they cannot afford the first one is beyond me... but hey you made your bed knowing the facts so now lie in it.

criss said...

In response to the "second women", your comments are disgusting and prejudice, you knew when you got into a relationship with this man that he already has a child/children, how dare you think that you or you children are more important that the first child? The man that you are with is irresponsible and immature, even more so because he has you spouting off your ill-advised rhetoric on this web site. Every child is important, every mother and father has the responsibility to support their children, whether or not he or she keeps "breeding"more children, I certainly hope that you and your partner are not teaching the "new" children how to be callus and irresponsible like yourselves. Grow up, get a second job and help to raise all children you have created, make sure that you show them how precious the opportunity it is to have them in your life.

criss said...

In response to the "second women", your comments are disgusting and prejudice, you knew when you got into a relationship with this man that he already has a child/children, how dare you think that you or you children are more important that the first child? The man that you are with is irresponsible and immature, even more so because he has you spouting off your ill-advised rhetoric on this web site. Every child is important, every mother and father has the responsibility to support their children, whether or not he or she keeps "breeding"more children, I certainly hope that you and your partner are not teaching the "new" children how to be callus and irresponsible like yourselves. Grow up, get a second job and help to raise all children you have created, make sure that you show them how precious the opportunity it is to have them in your life.

Anonymous said...

Kind of a heated debate.... Im sorry but I would have to agree with the "2nd Family" In all fairness I am a support payor and DO have a 2nd family... the first one was of course with a woman who only has children so that she can collect welfare and reap the profits of not one payment from me, but a multitude of payments from various men... thats right, she has more than one child with more than one father.

I have struggled to raise my "real" family while she gets to sit on her ass, drink herself stupid, have whatever kind of wild flings and gets paid for it.... Im sorry But Id strongly disagree with anyone who would tell me that the judicial system in Canada is working for ALL families, you would have to be either dumb as a post to not see this or blatently ignorant. ALL children are important not just the first, nor the second... ALL!!

You may bash this thread as much as you like I really dont care, this is MY situation and I am dealing with it. Lets hear it for all those women who live off welfare, sleep with multiple partners and say "you owe me" I owe NOTHING... deadbeat dads my ass... both genders have the potential to be deadbeats, not just the men. Consider EVERYTHING into the calculations before making a scene about how important a first family is!

Anonymous said...

For the last post, you are right there are deadbeat mothers and fathers out there. But when you start talking about your "REAL" family, wow.

I hate my ex husband and if he died tomorrow I would have a party, but I chose him to be my son's father, and that is my fault.

You chose this so called multiple partner, welfare collecting, drinking ex to be the mother to your child/children, suck it up.

I can bet my life savings your "REAL" family do not include the children you have with her.

It is funny how it is always the ex wifes fault. I work hard, have a career and have raised my son on my own, so what do you say to me when I try to collect from my ex, he does not have the excuses you have.

By the way his name is Doug, are you sure you are not related to

Anonymous said...

WOW..its really too bad parents don't put their children first! I have been on both sides of this conflict. I have a 10 year old daughter from a former relationship and am a common law spouse with a man who has two children. I left my former relationship with debt in excess of $50,000, all I requested from my ex was $200 a month (according to the courts he should have paid ALOT more and paid half the debt) logic was how much do I need to pay my bills and help my daughter sustain her standard of living....$200/month could cut it.

My ex has since been married and has another child, I know what he makes and have decided that he no longer needs to pay support as long as he doesn't contest paying half of all costs. Isn't it about the children?

My partners ex on the other hand is money hungry. at one point I was unemployed and we were struggling, my partner did not have enough money to put gas in the car to get to work after we paid child support, bills and mortgage. We could not afford to put the children in extra cirruclar activities, yet we felt guilty (and knew the value of the activities for children)when they were in nothing even though their mother was getting $600/month and making $50,000 a year but choose not to enroll them in anything. We refinanced our home and paid off our debt to ensure their quailty of life. I have since made a career move where I make good money..the ex who is an artist and does not report her actual earnings has now requested acess to MY income through mediation. She will get it over my dead body as I refuse to pay for her children any longer.

Its suppose to be about the children, but from my experience its been about the money from ex wives. Its a womans court, all she needs to do is cry the poor me(s) and the court concurs....bottom line in a joint custody situation is the children suffers, as the guidelines are based on gross pay...if it wasn't for me my step children would get nothing, their father would not have anything left after he paid child support, mortgage, and everyday this really fair? we and the ex have similar mortgage payments, yet there is a family of 5 on our side and a family of 3 on hers....where'a the justice? What is this all about? the children or the money?

Money is the root of all evil!

Anonymous said...

i think the point that everyone is missing is its really the system that everyone is bashing not the ex, i am in the position of a new wife (with baby on the way, watching us living paycheck to paycheck while the ex is now living it up)
no matter who was at fault in my husbands previous relationship i of course believe that he has to support his daughter, but its the amount that is ridiculous i cant even imagine what information the law uses to figure this out
and my husband also wants to support his child its how much thats the problem, so your telling me because i married a man who had a child from a previous relationship i should have chosen not to have kids with him cause hes getting screwed by the law (and yes im sorry but from an ex who will not compromise)
and these are kids we're talking about not princesses that have a "lifestlyle" what kind of "lifestyle" have they come to expect!!! they should expect to have food and clothes and a roof over their heads,and i dont think my children are more important than anyone else but can they at least be equally important even though they didnt come "first"

Anonymous said...

Amen to the last poster.

to the other poster who said, basically, "you knew he had kids and those kids should enjoy the lifestyle they would've had during the marriage..." interesting. I wish it WAS like that, because when my dh was married to that cow, he was still a STUDENT. They split up when sd was an infant...Now, 15 years later, he's a professional, making a damn nice paycheque, and she WANTS IT ALL. Too bad really. Stupid greedy pig.

Anonymous said...

I can not believe the crap you ppl are saying about single parents!!! Most single parents work hard and love their children, doing everything they can to provide the best possible living experience for their child, and if that means taking the non-paying parent to FMEP, so be it. My ex has been with FMEP for 2 years now, and has never made a payment, in my experience FMEP does not do enough to collect over-due child support. I believe that if a parent fails to pay child support (for an extended period of time) that he\she should go to jail for a minimum of 3 months (hopefully with flexibility and compassion to recognize non-paying parent's life circumstances), that will certainly give them the incentive to pay.

Hard nosed, yes, but I am tired of the ppl out there that forget their children, breed more children and then whine about not having enough money to support their "new family". You made a commitment to love and care for the first child in the beginning, you created life that depends on you, get a second job and grow up!!!

I have Multiple Sclerosis, I battle it everyday, and I still work and I have the incredible opportunity to have my child in my life. Every child support case is unique, every circumstance is different, but in the end the only person that really suffers is the child.

Please stop dehumanizing and stereotyping single parents.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

I have seen much abuse of this ruling and it creates a dead beat mother who does not want to work and use the money for her free trips and booze. There are no checks on the mothers who do not work because they feel they do not have to anymore and live off there new spouse also. The children suffer and I would rather see a system where the cost of living is considered, the "other family cost" (children in another marriage, whether or not the other spouse is capable of working ( just like in the U.S.A.), etc. The Canadian system SUCKS and the law makers should be embarrassed.

Anonymous said...

not every mother (or father) takes child support for a free "ticket", very few in fact. Just because you chose to breed with someone of low caliber, it doesn't mean that I deserve your emotional bashing!!! Get a grip, grow up, and get a second job. I am a single parent that works hard to give my child everything I can, I am glad that FMEP and the government is getting tougher, I only wish it could be more so...
Your first child/children need you to step up and be a man (or woman), just do it and stop whining!

Anonymous said...

As a mother of two wonderful children who are part of an intact but impoverised (due to child support payments) second family I would like to know, how can we change this to make things more equal for every child? Too many of these stories mirror each other, and my own. My children are living a substantially lower standard of living while my step-son's mother (who concieved him as a trap) doesn't work, and in fact still lives with her own parents, as she likes to take us back to court anually to get more money using legal aid. So, no cost of living, no job, collects child support and government bonuses for having a child and my kids can't even learn to swim at the local pool. There's justice. We need to get together somehow to change it. Look at Australia, let me know what you think.

Anonymous said...

From what I understand, in Australia, parents get what is called "mother's pension" (please correct me if I am wrong), where I am from, in Canada, we don't even get that. Now I am not saying that the pension should replace paid or received child support, I am just saying that it really could be worse for you. Now the reality is that you got together with a man that already had children, it is your responsibility to take that into consideration when you choose to have more children. Not a nice reality, but reality none the less. Your man or yourself need to work more or get a better paying job to get ahead. Your partner has a responcibility to his\her first children, I hope you never consider taking that away from those children. I am sorry that you are struggling to have enough money, but the courts would never take to much from you, it is part of the child support calculation, IT IS FAIR, if you think it is an unfair amount, then maybe try taking ex back to court?

And I just want to mention, how do you know the ex's pregnancy was a trap? Obviously your partner had sex with the ex, it was his choice, you have no idea what was happening when they were together, he will tell you things to make you feel important now that he is with you, please remember, there are 2 sides to every story, it is not healthy for you to carry such a grudge for her, you dont even know her like your partner did. Good luck, I hope this situation gets easier for you and your family.

Anonymous said...

I am married to a man who supports 2 children from his first marriage. While I don't see a problem with paying the amounts of CS in the tables, I find the problem in Canada is all the "extras" that get added on.

Becasue his ex CHOOSES not to work, we are left with paying 100% of the "extras". Currently these add up to $360/month, ON TOP of CS.

Another huge problem I have is that travel expenses to see the kids are paid 100% by us, even though SHE moved accross the country. She gave the judge some story about wanting to move home to be close to family, then up and moved away from where they live (and further from us), after 8 months! So, we pay on average about 3600/year on flights.

In reality, our CS obligation is DOUBLE what the table amount calls for, all because the "ex" doesn't have a job!

The fact that we have 2 children of our own was never factored in what we were to pay her. I find it very sad that our government lets the "custodial parent" off the hook for financially contributing to their kids. I realize that most custodial parents don't do this, but the problem lies in the fact that if they WANT to, they get to.

I don't think our kids should have to suffer financially becasue of HER poor choices. I know the typical reponse is that "well you knew what you were getting into". I find these responses very short-sighted. When a women doesn't recieve CS from her "ex" the gov't is all over him, garnishing his wages. Society doesn't tell her "too bad your ex is a deadbeat and your kids have to suffer". No, our society tries to help her. Why then do these same government people not try to understand that what second families and second children are going through is REAL, many many 2nd kids are put into poverty or close to poverty situations simply becasue the ex gets CS and too many extras. Why don't they see this for what it is? A problem that needs to be fixed, just as they try very hard to fix the "deadbeat" problem.

I would like to hear from other "second wives" who want to petition our government in a serious way. No child should suffer, 1st or 2nd becasue of crazy skewed laws.

Anonymous said...

I think the real issue with this ruling is that the courts are still not dealing with accountability.

While they are making that the Payor accountable by disclosure, the recipient still does not have to account for where the money is being spent. I can personally attest to the fact that I have seen my daughter go without while my ex buys all kinds of extra's only of benefit them self.

The ruling is not a problem, when accountability, on both sides, is taken into consideration. I do agree that the guidelines should be changed somewhat and that the cases should be dealt with on the merits of both parties situation but, I do not think the actual disclosure of income is a problem.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that someone would say child support guidelines in Canada are fair. To me, that just means they are either not in the system, or they are on the recieving end of the money train. It is completely niave to think that some women are not above trapping a man with a baby. While wrong on so many levels, the system supports and justifies it by giving them so much money that they never have to work again. if my morals were that low, it seems like a pretty good gig. The problem is we are now living with kids who have no work ethic and a sense of entitlement. It will be interesting what that generation will turn out to be.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion, the last 2 blog entries are shocking, not only because they are laced with malice and ignorance, but they are profoundly immature.

I can assure you that most people are not out for a free ride while caring for their child or children as a single parent, this is a difficult and demanding job.

Very few women will try to "trap" a man with pregnancy, there are some, but usually this comes with personal problems and issues, I would advise you to "keep it in your pants" until you actually get to know this woman, you do have some self control, do you not? Please take some responsibility for your actions.

How does a receiving parent account for paid child support? Do they provide the paying parent with receipts for paid rent, grocery bills, new bike, computer, tampons or condoms? The list goes on forever, most single parents use the child support to feed, shelter, love, amuse and PROVIDE for the child. If you feel that she or he is "letting the child go without", then please contact your local child protection agency. Stop whining and take action.

To all the parents that pay their child support, I appreciate you, and I respect you deeply.

To the others that do not, or have a problem with paying child support, Ignorance is bliss.

To quantify your personal problems with your ex causes you to lose perspective of the whole picture. Let go and do everything you can to not hurt the child, she or he is innocent.

I encourage you to seek legal counsel if you feel that the child support amount is to much or to little, there are many wonderful lawyers out there that are willing to help at minimal costs, and legal aid may be able to help also. It just takes some effort. Your child believes in you, even if you do not.

Submitted by a single parent with a court order, and "in the system" that has never received child support, even though I have tried.

Anonymous said...

FAIR,FAIR. I'll tell you what's not fair. The fact that i pay 330$ a month to somebody who is on welfare that doesn't know how to budget money and spends little to none of the money on my daughter....meanwhile i have a three month old son and wife to support with no other income coming in. Does my son get 300$ a month to be spent on him? The answer to that is a big fat NO. Yes we recieve baby bonus but that money is going towards hosuing, car paymnets and loans. Things that are necessary for me to even get my ass to work. Is it fair that i can barely afford 650$ a month for a shitty two bedrrom apartment. Is it fair that my son has no money being spent on him because it is all going to my daughter? I love my daughter but i was brought up treated equal to my siblings and trhe govermnet is forcing me to choose my daughter and a lazy person that has never worked a day in her life and in my opinion never will. Why am i paying for the fact that there are so many mothers out there that choose to be lazy and use their kids as meal tickets? What it all comes down to in the end is that the government doesn't want to pay for these people. They don't care about men. The laws are made by people who fortunatley for themsleves have perfect families and dont pay child support. Good for them. May Ben and my whole family suffer for my sins!

Anonymous said...

" Why am i paying for the fact that there are so many mothers out there that choose to be lazy and use their kids as meal tickets?"

Did you even read what you wrote befor you submitted???

You are 1 person, the mother of your child is 1 person.

Do not generalize other innocent women in your life experience.

I think you may have overextended yourself and now you are looking for someone to blame.

Anonymous said...

I have a very difficult time sympathising with 'fathers' and I use the term loosely, who complain that they are having a difficult time supporting a 'new' family when they still have to pay for the old one.

Here's a thought, maybe you should have taken your existing children into account before having more!!!!!

Ah but your new partner/wife wanted to have kids.
Well maybe you should have told her that you already have kids that you are also responsible for!

Children aren't pets that you can leave for someone else to look after because you want a new one at your new home.

Peter D.

Anonymous said...

I can't tell you how sick I am of people saying "well maybe your husband shouldn't have had more kids if he couldn't afford them" I am mad as %^%$ about this. These people are obviously NOT in the system, or on the reciving end of the money, for whom it is NEVER enough. When I married my husband and had kids with him, he paid 500/month in child support. He now pays 1300/month. Was I to look into a glass ball and predict the future? Did I know the Custodial mother would quit her job and make us pay 100% of exyta-ordinary expenses? Did I know she would move accross the country and make us pay 3600/year in flights? Did I ever see my husbands taxes and see that this money is actually AFTER TAX money and he gets no tax breaks for having sent her all that money? You people should be ashamed of yourselves, REAL children are growing up in POVERTY becasue ADULT WOMEN are allowed to make any stupid choices they want, and these choices can DIRECTLY affect the new children her husband has. Why is the custodial parent not held financailly accountable for her own children, just as the NCP is? The whole system is a crock of ^%$ and if one more person says my beautiful kids ought not to have been BORN because my husband's ex-wife still controls his money and has him by the B%$lls beacsue she has the law behind her and takes 1/2 his net income I think I'm gonna SCREAM!

@wiselaw said...

I've been watching this comment thread closely, and appreciate your very informative views. I've posted on the topic today - see:
Are Canada's Child Support Guidelines Unfair to "Second" Families?

Anonymous said...

OMG! I cannot say "amen" enough to the last poster! I am so with you sister! Just because the court deem my "second children" don't exist...thank you for posting this. I am one of the original posters of this thread. {hugs} and God Bless you! You are NOT alone.

Anonymous said...

Kudos to the poster who said...if it wasn't for me my step children would get nothing, their father would not have anything left after he paid child support, add car insurance and gas, and the payor is broke. I care about the children and he loves his children dearly. Overnight bags are never sent and I spend thousands so the kids have shoes etc. for school while mom and her boyfriend and their 2 new kids reap the benefits of the support money, the FIRST kids are not even looked after - and there is never enough - the mothers income with support/child tax/income tax GST... etc. is over 56K a year (plus the 40K her new boyfriend makes) while the dad makes 15 dollars an hour. Because of undue hardship 3 years ago a pension was cashed in and it made his income 25K higher, she wants retro support for that year of his income - sad that after loosing all the taxes on that money he came out with 7,000 - which he spent on his kids for school clothes and dental work etc. But they figure it out off the top. I pay his car insurance and he lives for free so he can support the kids. It's nice that the government thinks that kids can spend nights in boarding rooms with their dads who are broke and don't have a supportive WOMAN - Noone spends 1000 a month on their kids if they make 15 dollars an hour. I was a single mom, never collected welfare or child support -baby bonus was 31 dollars a month - now its 400+ a month. I put myself through school and Have bought 2 houses - the law is making it way too easy to screw up someone elses life the way that they're being screwed with - GROW UP PRINCESSES, make it fair so kids can enjoy dad too - he should also be able to go on a vacation with the kids that YOU took away from him because of the money - THERE IS a thing called split custody when you live 5 minutes apart (but you wouldn't reap all the thrills of keeping in control of his life - be real - it's not about the kids.

Anonymous said...

I am also a single mother who works hard every single day. My daughters father chose to bolt when she was conceived and now to this day lives a very materialistic life. I know he has a fairly substantial income but on paper its low and pathetic! He works in a family owned business which convieniently now is owned by his brother, which i know differently but cannot prove! Recently I also became aware that he now is working in Alberta on a camp making a very substantial salary. I hear of his new vehicles, trips to vegas and 10 person hot tubs while the support i receive doesn't even cover my child care expenses!!! I want to go back to court to renegotiate our agreement but am currently looking for a new lawyer ...I am also in NL? Anyone out there with any suggestions??


Anonymous said...

To Anonymous who wrote:

"the law is making it way too easy to screw up someone elses life the way that they're being screwed with - GROW UP PRINCESSES, make it fair so kids can enjoy dad too - he should also be able to go on a vacation with the kids that YOU took away from him because of the money"

I am so with you!!!

These woman had one, two or more kids with the man, but the moment he wants shared custody, suddenly he's a "bad, bad man". More likely, they see $$$$ in their eyes and know that doing what is right for their kids (seeing mom and dad 50/50) isn't as important to them as that big fat check they get every month.

Anonymous said...

This is to the last poster, I am from NL and I have been fighting since 2002 to get the correct support from my ex husband. Unfortunately I have spent more money in legal fees than I will ever see in return from my ex husband. That is the legal system in NL. The courts feel that if you have raised your child and he/she did not want for anything than why waste the judge's time fighting this in court.

I have gone to many lawyers, one lawyer who was very honest I might add, (probably cause he was raked over the coals by his ex), said it is a waste of my time and money to fight the system, I wont get retroactive support, and in the second breath he told me I was out for a pound of flesh... I wonder if all the people at family court feels that way...

My ex husband lives in the US, I recently was sent a payroll statement by his lawyer, and to date this year, he made $151 000 US$ which converted is approx $193 000 CA$. My ex husband has not paid health care since 1999, he has paid very little to help with my childs extracurricular activities (which he was supposed to pay 70%). The courts will only go back to 2004 when my first filing at the court was in 2002. Why? they wont give me a reason why, only to say get a lawyer, and when I told them I couldnt afford a lawyer, than that was my problem not theirs.

My ex husband has a 1/4 million dollar home, his facebook shows fancy cars, fancy vacations, big screen tv's, and a very materialistic lifestyle. While I have worked very hard to keep my son in hockey every year, and give him the basic needs, it would have been nice to give him some extras that every child deserves, like a decent home to live in.

The last time I was in court, representing myself, the judge, and the ex's lawyer, looked at each other and made faces and rolled eyes every time I made a comment (they obviously knew each other personally very well). This is the type of conduct you will be subjected to because these lawyers and judges all know each other, they dont care what happens to me or you or our children. And from my experience with this system, the one with the most money in their pocket wins, and in my case it is my ex. This is not over yet, and I will fight until death to see this system change, if not for my child for others in NL who has/is suffering.

I have written the Minister of Justice on this, and got back a "Form Letter" stating that this was not the responsibility of their department. Imagine that, not the responsibility of the Justice Department when there is wrongdoing in the court system, but you and I already know, the judges and lawyers can do anything they well please.

If you would like to contact me on all this you certainly can, I dont know if I am allowed to put any emails addys on here but I will try, it may be deleted. This is an addy I just set up, I will give you my real addy once you contact me. I am looking for other single parents in this province who will band together to make some changes or at least make a stand against the terrible way the child support system in NL works. All we need is a voice and that comes in numbers. I am also planning to set up a facebook account with this logo as well. So if the email addy gets deleted, check out facebook.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Anonymous said...

I made a few comments a couple of weeks ago about the piece Garry Wise had in the paper, these comments were not posted on this blog, I was wondering why? Shouldnt all of our comments be posted even if you do not agree with them.

Anonymous said...

I sympathize with the payors and their wives. It is about time they have a blog like this! I am with my husband for 10 years, who has been in the system paying support for 15 years. His ex-wife just like alot of the ones I have read about chooses not to work lives off his money and chooses to hide from him.. so he can't even see his kids! he tries on a regular basis and yet, evey time he contacts them, she ups and runs away! Unlisted number, no current address. nd yet according to the system whteher or not you see your kids or how you are treated... you still have to pay!!! So now he lost his relationship with his kids, our kids we have together are doing without because of the current recalculation amount which was extremely overcalcualted, and now we live off of credit. She tries real hard to keep aways so that he will not find out she is hording money and not working. She sits on welfare too... Isn't that double dipping? my husband pays taxes that go to welfare, and then he pays CS. So she actually hits him twice. I also have a right to speak this way, because I also am on the other end of it. My oldest daughter has a different father who is truly a dead beat!!! I went to court to try and get child support, but the lawyer told me that as long as he makes less than 1000.00 a month they will not make him pay anything! So applying to a court would have been a waste of my time. What do you think he is doing? Nothing thats what. he purposely make s little to know money , still lives at home with mom and dad and lazes around so he does nothave to do a damn thing. My husband now treats her like his own and has been helping raise her since she was a baby, while he was already paying child support. so just so you know, I understand both sides, there are really nice dads and ex husbands o out there, who are getting severely mistreated and the system need to change before everyone ends up losing.

@wiselaw said...

To the commenter whose previous comments did not appear:

As you can see, there is no shortage of opposing viewpoints in this comment thread and elsewhere on Wise Law Blog.

The only comments that I routinely moderate are those that contain spam links, use gratuitous profanity, employ defamatory language or are otherwise grossly off-topic.

If your missing comments did not fall into any of these categories, it is possible that they somehow got lost in the Google Blogger system. You're invited to resubmit them.

Regards to all, and thank you for participating in this discussion.

Garry J. Wise

Anonymous said...

I am a father of a 13 year old boy who just recently moved back in with his mother. For 14 months she did not pay me any money for anything. She even borrowed money from me so that she could see him at Christmas. Now that he has moved back home ( six weeks ago)she has had her lawyer send me a letter wanting to increase child support payments.While living with me my son was in hockey as well as a hockey program at school, everyday he got to play hockey. All this cost money but I knew she could not afford it as she has other children. My lawyer told me her support should be $330 a month but like I said she could not afford the $100 dollars I asked her to send for an education fund.Now why does every Dad that tries to do the right thing seem to be the one who loses in the end. I have had my salary increase in the past four years and my support stayed the same but while he lived with his mother he was able to do all his extra activities.(hockey, football,
school activities) which I paid for.
I have no issue with paying support for my child but a father who does not pay support for 14 months is a deadbeat father. What do you call a mother who does not pay support for 14 months?
Does anybody really care if there are good fathers out there? Do we really only care about the deadbeats or is somebody giving recognition to the fathers who are really doing a good job?

Anonymous said...

You are right, there are great fathers out there as well as great mothers who are doing the right thing for their kids. As a mother, I can tell you that your ex in my opinion is a deadbeat mom. Any parent who do not support their child is a deadbeat.

By the way I am a mother who believes all parents should supprt their children.

Anonymous said...

yes, I do sympathize with you. as you can see from my comment, I understand exactly what your going through as my husband is going through the same, only his ex has no contact with him. She just makes sure she contacts the lawyer when it comes to recalculation time to increase her pocket. With no concern as to my husband and how he feels about his situation. All you men need to get together and file a suit against the system, maybe then things will change a bit, I mean, the mothers who deserve it and are doing it for the right reasons should benefit of course, but what about the dads that do care? Like my husband and you? The bad ones make it hard for the good ones. Instead of repremanding the good ones all the time, fight harder to get after the bad ones, make them pay, so that the good dads do not have to carry the slump. so if you read my comment, yes, I do see your situation, and good for you keep it up, becuse what goes around comes around, and in the end you will benefit, just be patient your time will come.

Anonymous said...

What I have noticed is that ususally only the women (or custodial parents) that complain about the system are the ones who's ex's are NOT doing the right thing, not paying child support and not looking after their children.

But the custodial parents whose Ex's ARE paying child support and extra expenses do not post on these sites.

Why? Becasue they have a good thing going, they don't have any issues with the system and certainly don't want it to change.

What people need to realize is that the "good" fathers are taken advantage of by the system, many of them and their second families can barely survive.

But we con't hear their stories enough, we just hear the "deadbeat dad" stories.

While I certainly feel bad for any single parent whose ex does not help out financially, it is time people realized - THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT ISSUES.

People just want the good dads that are getting scr%%#ed by the system to be recognized too.

So I know alot of women write in and say "my ex doesn't pay etc. etc." By writing OUR stories, we are not trying to take away from you.

But good men who can barely pay their bills cause the law makes them pay too much to their ex's need a voice too!!!

Anonymous said...

Payors must disclose increases? I thought the Guidelines were there to ensure the children were kept "in the manner they were accustomed to" prior to divorce.

In our case, my husband didn't make much money when he and his wife were together. They both worked full-time. They lived a very modest life-style, probably just above poverty levels.

I met my husband after they divorced. He was a broken man, but I saw in him a TON of potential. I had contacts and he worked overseas with my Bro-in-law to get some good experience.
While he worked overseas I was pregnant with our first(planned). I missed him terribly and was sick my whole pregnancy. His ex-wife and kids had already moved away, so they didn't miss him. He actually saw his kids more when he was on his way to and from overseas. And the MAIN reason he wanted to make more money was so that he could get a better job upon return and AFFORD to fly his girls out more. Well, it worked out. He got home and got a job paying 3X what he made before. But our family doesn't see any of the benefit of this.

Why? The amount of CS he was sending increased so much that his ex-wife could quit her job. She then become more demanding and made us pay for tons of "extra-ordinary" expenses. His taxes rose substantially, yet he got no child dependant credits for all the $$$ he sent his ex, His ex. took us back to court and said he had secret money from over there in hiding, and she wanted her share. There was no "secret" money. He wasn't over there a full year, and it was only AFTER a full year that he would have got a bonus. We showed her and her FREE lawyer the contract, but they didn't believe us. We paid our lawyer a lot of money. I was off work on maternity leave, and all the stuggles we had to improve our families situation in life back-fired. All it did was allow her to stay off work, get the max. gov't assistance and make me have to go back to work while our baby was still young.

I was the one who made him beleive in himself again, get his skills upgraded and make the sacrifice while pregnant and she gets all the benefits. It is totally absurd and the system that alows this stinks!

Anonymous said...

I was left in 2003 with 3 girls (2 biologically mine) their mother a professional with 7 years in her field, took off and left me just starting in my profession, with $60 000 in student loans. My Ex’s we had paid off before I went back to school. She took the car the bank account and 1/2 of the little money we had invested. I fought through raising the 3 girls and managed to prosper. I have never denied my ex access, even moving out of the house I was renting for myself and our kids so she could visit on weekends. I raised the girls for 2.5 years on my own with no help from her.

I have since managed to build my life back and have remarried and am now at the same point in my career, same amount of experience and qualifications (same profession that she left) that she was at when she ran off.

We share custody and guardianship but I was awarded primary residence. This arrangement has worked, but I am now being taken to court for Child support, and from the looks of it she will get it. I currently pay for most of the expenses anyway. Now she seems to have a way to get spousal support by using the kids.

How fair is our Justice system that two people who have essentially the same qualifications (both teachers), where one has been the responsible parent and worked for the kids and improved their standard of living and their lifestyle, while the other has jump from whimsy to whimsy, is being told he must pay child support.

I used to be a proud Canadian thinking we stood for justice and equality, but I am now sorely disheartened.

When do the good guys get a break? I would have been better to sit around on my #%# and collected welfare than to work myself to a point where I now have to continue to pay for her. Really motivates a man to try.

Anonymous said...

There is a fb group "Child Support Newfoundland", anyone from NL who has problems with our family court system please post your 2cents worth. It is time all parents speak out about how poorly our family court system in NL and Canada operates.

Even the enforcement office who is solely responsible for enforcing a court order dont have a clue what to do most of the time, unless it it laid out for them so they dont have to do any work, they will not/cannot do the job.

After going to court in 2002 and again 2004 my file was supposed to be sent to US for variation in support. From 2004 to 2007 my file was on the missing list, thinking it went to the US and gotten lost in the shuffle, only to find out it was sitting on someones desk, either at family court or at support enforcement in Corner Brook, and nothing has been done with it, it was never dealt with and now I have to fight with the same court system to go back to 2002 for retro.

Does anyone in government get held accountable for these errors anymore, or are these people above the law. In my job if I had done something this awlful, I would have lost my job and this file would have been made a priority, now it is 2009 and I still have nothing done, and the courts refuse to go back to 2002.

Has anyone else in NL had these problems, I know you have because being a single (working) mom for 15 years I have talked to many many single parents (both moms and dads) with similiar problems. Please check out the fb and post your complaints, lets have a voice for all parents who have been shafted not only by our exs but also by the court system.

Anonymous said...

how do you get a father to pay TWENTY years later huh
He skipped the province, avoided courts, delayed court..and NOW lives in a house he NEVER even paid for..what gives..

Anonymous said...

I stumbbled upon this site by mistake but the conversations and feedbacks caught my eye...I live in the U.S.A. and the child support laws arent that different here then they are in Canada Im married to a military personnel and he just started paying child support for his son and they wanted 700/month for him but the judge cut him some slack and dropped it down to 555/month and the child is covered under his insurance and the bad thing about this is we live in two different states so the amount of his payments is going to keep him from seeing his son and he's pretty depressed about that and our first child is due next month so to whoever wrote the passage about you shouldnt have children from a man your married to just because his support payments are too high you are a plum fool...i agree with just about everyone because these support payments are extremely high especially when his ex girlfriend makes more then he does lives at home with her parents isnt responsible for any rent/mortgage payments just the things she enjoys and the only reawon i say this is because I know her personally so I'm not just running my mouth about I feel just as well as everyone else the calculations for child support payments need to modified a little better for everyone so that everyone can live normal comfortable lives not just one side...because regardless how anyone feels its hard to support two families especially when one child is reciving almost half your monthly income and especially in these times when money is hard to come across....

Anonymous said...

I am writing as a mom that never received child support, and as step mom who raised 3 more children with my present husband, and watched him pay dearly without complaint while she ran through his money gambling and then when we took custody of all the children received noBeing a single mom at one point in my life,i know it the drill from that perspective as well, so i have a pretty wide open ye to all the complaints. What brought me to this blog is research for my nephew who lives in Canada and had a baby with a girl when he was 17. The child he was told (after paying child support while working and going to school a couple years) was not his.. the girl dsappeared and took the child, and he did not see her again. In the meantime he picked up and moved on, finished school got his career, met a lovely girl and got married. They started to work towards buying a home and having a family. 2 years into their marriage, girl from the past comes back and claims she made a mistake, the child is his and she wants her to get to know her dad. Dad is ecstatic, wife is happy, he sees his child again, and he offers to support the child and pays 250 a month, not a lot but he has student loans and bill of his own that have developed over the 8 years he did not know he had a child. This young man and his wife have a brand new baby and suddenly ex demands more money. The ex does not work, smokes and and lives at her parents home and has no bills. child is of course school age, so the mothers' allowance people are about to pull her income as she should be working. Meanwhile Dad and his wife have had a jut bought a home. the wife is on mat leave so no sizable income, and now ex wants to go after 750 in support for her the first child, and 350 more in other expenses. He speaks to a lawyer who says new family doesn't count, first child comes first.
How can the courts not see this girl is lazy and gold digging and has betrayed her own child by lying to the father for years, and has been responsible ever since finding out he was actually the bio father. I do not understand how the FBA can just tell this girl to sit on her hiney and go after the dad for child support in excess of 750 when he is struggling to make his own ends meet. And at the same time she makes no effort at all. I think that social services is not at all doing what is right for this child, but in fact disabling her mother and setting an example of poor character for this child to see in her mother. Basically because they are done with wanting to help her out now that the child is old enough to not require day care and the mom could be working, and doesn't feel like it, they tell her to soak the father for whatever they don't want to provide and more. I am certain they have not been paying her in excess of 1000 for her child's needs, when she is living at home and not having any expenses for rent etc. So instead the nice guy finishes last always. Too bad they can't put it to the real deadbeat dads who don't even try and have no good intentions. I have seen my ex flee the system for years and never pay a penny for either of his kids. Now they are grown he is off the hook. So what about the kids in all this? What kind of message does it give to the children?

Anonymous said...

So I guess what mothers of prior born children are actually telling us to tell our "subsequent" children is..."sorry kid, I should've known better than to bring you into this world but since I didn't, I'm gonna see to it that you pay for me and your father DARING to have you WHILE MARRIED...NO CHRISTMAS FOR YOU, no school clothes for you either, no school supplies, no decent housing, no mommy home to greet you when you come home from school, you filthy disgusting Unworthy SUBSEQUENT!!!" I do find solace in one thing...that there are sob stories out there about prior born children going without!!! GOOD...YOU'RE mother should've known better than to bring you into this world...HULLO BIRTH CONTROL...You chose to have sex with a deadbeat..NOW YOU PAY...HA!! That's right, your hate for MY KIDS makes me HATE YOUR KIDS!

Anonymous said...

I am a father who rases a 15 year old and a 3 year old. I have an 8 year old boy which has been alienated from me. The mother refuses me to have access!. I pay support for him and many motions to change amounts have been put through by her end and not one of them contained any information regarding her (the recipients) income. However, all of my taxation years have been provided. They (FRO) has garnished my wages and now I have 17 dollars left to support my two children after all necessary bills are paid in order to just live in the home with little food every month.I cannot save a penny for my kids edu. and their future as the government will not allow me! Mother of the 8 year old is on disability because of back pain. The CAS has taken custody of the 8 year old and her other child because of the child and drug abuse in the home (crack cocaine and selling oxy cotton on the street) and I have every document to support EVERYTHING I state! So I'm ordered to pay this amount to the mother even though she doesn't have the kids. I have spent 26,000 dollars on legal fee's Why doesn't the mother have ANY accountability? She is not raising them,the city is,her boyfriend is, and I am financially.we are being forced out of our home!.She however has lived off the fat from the rest of us.In her HOUSE (and that means you if you pay tax in ontario).The lawyers get rich,the families fight and well that's how it is! If you can't raise your child, and need ridiculous amounts of"child support"every month plus social assistance or ODSP then let me raise him? He will be much better off! (See CAS file) I am clearly much more of a responsible parent then her! This system is ruining families/children and men are clearly being discriminated against! I mean,the poor girl? Gimme a break,get a job!My 15 year old has a job!So does her boyfriend who is 16!You moms should be ashamed of yourselves!You should be,because you don't TRY! You SHOULDN'T be paid to be a parent... That's called a nanny!get off the deadbeat dad train! Because your riding the deadbeat mom train!My 15 year old is not even considered for child support entitlement and her mother is on ODSP as well and doesn't pay us squat either! See the pattern here people?My 15 year old is not SUBSEQUENT! But considered subsequent in this case as I am ordered to pay support under the ONE child guideline!I looked at the child support table and under 3 children.GOV'T doesnt care about my 2 kids! So if the government is NEGLECTING these children,and I'm a hard working, well earning citizen. Make these bums pick up garbage or do charity work or something!Put the kids in the custody of the working parent! Simple!they can see their moms or welfare parents on weekends.Men and women can work! Where does a woman get off taking any money from and ex when they are with another man who is supporting them (alamony)? Look in the mirror you bum! How many people need to support your butt? Any man doing this I feel the same way! No person should take advantage of these laws because they are wrong wrong wrong! The worst part of it all, this 8 year olds mother cannot even talk to me herself! Because she herself does not feel right asking me for this money!she has never even tried asking me for financial support! So she gets her free (tax paid) lawyer to contact me and bully me! I wouldn't feel right asking my ex for money! I never have and never will!!! I just go earn myself! Its called "being responsible"! Especially for your children! Maybe focus on what you as a parent can do, and not what everyone else can do for you! Don't get mad, don't get even, get ahead!!! Silly good for nothings! Lol,I have been getting ahead, but the further I get ahead, the more this lazy butt mom takes from me and my children!

Anonymous said...

Child support amount are outrageous! I know of two boys, aged 8 and 10 who have shared custody and they are mostly with the father. He pays her 5000 per month! Those kids earn more money than a lot of adults with educations! Remeber that is tax free money! So it is not unrealistic to say they each earn 60,000 a year! Wow! No wonder she doesn't try and make more money! She doesn't spend all of that on the kids EVERY month! Now they have young twins and they are not recognized or considered to have any support! This man cannot save a morsle for these childrens future! The mom hasn't a nickle saved and she is living with a NEW man who owns a good business but claims they are friends! Scam artists! She should be saving some of that money for their future! That's what they would have done if they were together still! You cannot say that you would actually spend that kind of money on a child when they take in more money than YOU (the recipient). You should be ashamed! Child support my ass! Fix this, make these lazy women do something!

Anonymous said...

Our case exactly!! This woman has not had a job in years but yet she owns 2 vehicles, all 4 of her kids (all from different men) are driving around on multiple atv's while our 2 children only have bicycles! To make things worse my husband only fathered one child with this woman and is the only one paying support!
She just bought HERSELF a brand new Harley Davidson Ford truck and is telling people "Look what Bill bought me!" By the way Bill is my husband! I'm totally disgusted by her!!

Anonymous said...

The support payor (who used every trick in the book to avoid paying support including not adhering to court orders & leading to loss of DL etc.) learned a tough lesson and paid an imputed support amount. He is now in hospital and is taking the position that he doesn't have to pay for support anymore since he is not earning an income. Support is for 2 one 16 and other 18 FT in school. He is 70+ with new wife and small child. I need to secure support for my 2 and their future academic goals (university). I suspect FRO will soon garnish all pensions etc. How can I secure future support for my 2? If new wife has power of attorney, how does that affect the situation?